Won't it be dull when we rid ourselves of all these demons haunting us?
"The War on Drugs" Barenaked Ladies
We've reached a tipping point.
In comments for my previous post, Lisa and Shannon both made the point that we transgendered folk often think that everyone's suffering is related to our issues. It's a perfectly valid point. We're a narcissistic bunch. In this case, though, I was right. It was about me.
The wife came to me today to have "an unpleasant conversation," one she's wanted to have since before Thanksgiving. It was not my imagination. My reading of her demeanor and body language was spot on. The talk was very civil, only the content being unpleasant. My legs, it seems, are indeed a dealbreaker. This is the line that I cannot cross. She has allowed me to grow my nails and shave my pits, but the legs...it's just too much. Mind you, this one thing got me through last winter, happier than any winter in memory. Note, also, that I was feeling nicely non-dysphoric until this talk today. Bare legs make an enormous difference in my outlook. Sadly, the same is true for the missus.
Last year, we had one session of couples counseling with my therapist. In the course of the hour, my shrink mentioned that one couple she dealt with had an agreement that he would get to shave his legs for one week out of the year. My wife is holding onto this idea like a pit bull. Not surprisingly, she sees this a great compromise position for the two of us, instead of the four months bare, eight months hairy schedule that I'm following.
Most of the ground covered today has been gone over several times, both in our talks and here on these pages. I'll try to boil it down to the salient points. She feels stupid for staying with me. She can't talk to her friends about this. If this relationship is doomed to go south, she wants to find a new mate while she's still young and pretty enough.
She told me that she was glad that the two of us had had colds during the last couple weeks, as it gave her a good excuse not to be intimate, not to feel obliged to kiss or embrace. She is glad that we haven't had opportunity to go out together, as she doesn't want to sit across the table from me and carry on a conversation.
"If you want to have a roommate, just keep doing what you're doing. That's what we'll be: roommates."
Her therapist has suggested that my support group is full of people who are divorced or single, and that getting advice from them is a grave mistake. It's true, marriage is rare in any trans support group, mine being no exception. They listen to me, they counsel me, but I make my own decisions.
Me: Have you ever questioned that you were a woman?
She: (pause) No...never.
Me: Well, I question my maleness constantly, every day.
Later...
She: Why does dealing with dysphoria have to involve changing your appearance?
I could go on. I've been trying for two years now to have my cake and eat it too. Today I came to the realization that there is no cake to have. The cake is a lie.
What next? I guess we'll be roommates for awhile. She has every right to feel the way she does, but I am not backing down. My feelings are legitimate, too. I have a right to my identity. I have a right to do with my body as I please. I have a right to feel as comfortable in my skin as she does in hers. I have tempered my desire to do more, out of respect for her feelings. It seems that that is not sufficient.
Musings: It's All About Community
5 hours ago

Sorry to hear this Leslie...
ReplyDeleteI am not sure what advice I can offer (or if I'd be qualified to offer it if I had).
Wishing you the best,
Stace
Lesley, that is so sad that she can't see or even want to begin to understand the extent of your feelings. Having a war of therapists does not sound like a good idea either, you could end up as their puppets in this with neither side prepared to give an inch.
ReplyDeleteI was lucky to be accepted but intimacy is now out of the question but had already faded away. We are now more like close sisters. Not everybody would be prepared to live with that.
At this point do you think that you could have one group session with therapists to make sure everyone has the same story clear in their heads. I don't envy you this position to be in, it is the kind of puzzle that spins in the head because there is no ideal solution, something has to give somewhere. Just when you were able to use the word "happy" I think you have to put that word away for a while.
So sad for you.
Caroline XX
Dear Leslie,
ReplyDeleteI know your hurt too. A kiss last night turned into a brush-off this AM. "Next you'll be shaving your legs too", as she left for work.
Happiness is so very fleeting, We need to grab every bit we can. Hold on and "keep on keeping on".
A hug from Eleanor
I'm trying to read between the lines, Leslie. Are you being demanding or is she being controlling?
ReplyDeleteYou and I have compared notes many times. I know just how far I can push it and, at that point, I hold back. I look at the love we have for each other and I look at what I would be without her.
Let's see... What would I be without her? Lonely, for sure. Poor eating habits would probably result in weight gain. I'd drink too much. I'd sleep too little. I'd be on hormones for sure, and full time. My son would disown me at that point. My daughter would stick with me. My career would go down the tubes. I would be incredibly depressed because I would have lost everything I had. For me, at this point in my life, it is just not worth it. The right time may come. I dream of that day. But, it is not now.
Instead, I fight it. I let my wife know the limits and she understands. It works for both of us. It is important to me for her to know my friends, and she does. That helps her to better understand me and what I am sacrificing for her.
Have you asked yourself what life would be without "the wife" (and, Leslie, I HATE that term. Makes her out to be a fixture and not a person). You should answer that question. Write it all down. You may find that life might be better. You may find that life may be worse. You need to make a decision.
If there is no love in your relationship, then maybe it is time to leave. It seems that you two have been tiptoeing around all of this without either of you asking the questions of yourself.
"What would I be without her/him"
This may all sound harsh, but you do know I care about you, girlfriend.
Calie xxx
Irresistable forces, immovable objects, predictable outcomes. I am so sorry.
ReplyDeleteThere will be change surely. Whatever changes there are, I hope you are both able to undertake with the kindness that you both deserve. I think it was Mandela who said that resentment is a cup of poison you fix for yourself to hurt someone else. Don't pick up the cup, and help your wife keep hands free of hers.
Best outcomes of hard options wished your way.
xoxox - Petra
Hmmmmm.... My first thoughts were: Who's the narcissist? However that is probably an unfair assessment. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is an ugly disease which beyond the context of what I want to say here. I believe we all learn to be ego-centric as a child and carry much of this self absorption into adulthood. Mother Teresa not withstanding. This is predictably evident when emotions and tensions rise and we defend our right to exist as ourselves, to be human.
ReplyDeleteSo you seem to be at a standoff? You know I don't get advice, only observations...most of which are totally worthless.
I'll leave you with best wishes and a quote: "We are strong, no on can tell us we're wrong.
Searchin' our hearts for so long.
Both of us knowing,
Love is a battlefield. Pat Benatar
Peace Out,
<3 Tina
Sorry about the typos..sheesh.
ReplyDeleteI meant; "I don't (give) advice, only observations...."
Didn't want that to get misread.
Peace
As a follow-up to Tina: My therapist explained to me the difference between healthy narcissism (i.e. standing up for your needs in life) and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (you can google for the diagnostic criteria, I won't link it here).
ReplyDeleteSome trans people have NPD. Many don't. Some cis people have NPD. I don't believe there's much of a correlation.
Survivors of Narcissists often have trouble discovering their own healthy narcissism. I know I struggle with that daily. This may not be a factor on either side of your personal equation, Leslie, but the word does crop up in your blog posts from time to time. I've learnt more than I ever wanted to know about NPD over the last couple of years, and a close personal friend knows tens times more than I do. If you want to discuss this further, let me know.
In any case, sounds like this may be the crunch point that both of you saw on the horizon anyway. If it is, do what you can to make decisions with a cool head and an eye to what will make life better for both of you. Martyrs - if they make their martyrdom obvious to those around them - aren't doing anyone any favors.
Leslie, this saddens me. Brings back painful memories of the same stage of a past relationship. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. xxx
ReplyDeleteIt seems you were right about how she was feeling. I so wish it didn't have to be that way. You have decided what you need for yourself, and she has decided what she is capable of accepting, and they are sadly just one edge from congruence.
ReplyDeleteIt still amazes me that the edge in question is shaven legs, though apparently it is not uncommon for it to be a major issue. Personally I can think of several really hot male swimmers and bikers who I would find attractive with or without leg hair.
I guess it is different, when you know the reason is specifically to feminize.
If you were a genetic girl, any feminist would tell you that you are doing the right thing by taking control of your own body and not letting anyone control you on that level.
However, anyone would advise your wife that she shouldn't have to stay with a transgender person if that is not the sort of relationship she wants.
Both your positions are valid, but I still find it terribly sad that you may be one issue away from making it work, when it seems such a superfluous one.
I do find myself wondering though, whether that is truly the last concession you need, or whether it feels that way because it is the one thing just out of reach?
I wish you both wisdom and compassion with the difficult decisions ahead Leslie.
I am sorry that your converstaion didnt go to positively.
ReplyDeleteBut at least you did talk honestly and both got your feelings out into the open.
I know its going to be difficult for you to stop shaving your legs as this is a stage I went through also.
My wife was reluctant but after a year or so of gently pushing the envelope she said she was ok with it. However it still took her a long time to really be ok with it.
Your wifes therapist doesent sound like they are helping with a resolution and it may be worth meeting an independant councillor you could see together.
Unfortunately this is a difficult situation for both of you and communication will still be key moving forward.
I have had stages where my wife was objecting in a big way but we are still together so you never know.
If you cant find a way to stay together it would still be nice to part on good terms.
Big Hug. xxx
Wow, there are so many responses, too many for me to read at this point in time. I got into this entry a bit late. What I say now may have been said by a few others, but here goes...
ReplyDeleteI really feel for you. I feel like crying for you. But I'm also so proud of you. No, not for taking a step towards femininity per se, but for standing up for yourself, and putting you first. Nobody else is going to put you first, and most certainly not your wife. She is busy putting her first!
I can't believe what she said to you, about finding a partner while she's still young! Ugh. I physically winced upon reading that.
It's obvious that she doesn't understand, and doesn't care to understand. Can she even try to put herself in your shoes? Even if she doesn't understand WHY having hairy legs makes you unhappy... at least knowing that it does indeed cause you grief and anxiety should be enough.
The good news out of this (if there could be any) is that now if you decided to paint your nails or something, you won't have anything to lose now. I don't mean to sound callous, far from it in fact. I just always try to look for the best in every situation. In a way, you are more free now than you ever have been. I know you'll think very carefully and deliberately before going any further, but just having the freedom to choose is a good thing.
That said, I can see more rough waters ahead. You have my email if you want a sympathetic ear. :)
Much hugs!!!
Just one week a year with hairless legs? Wow! How generous of her! Yes! Who is really the narcissist here? What ever happened to 50/50 in a relationship? I'm sure she has her idiosyncrasies that you aren't crazy about either, but I'll bet you live with them. What do you think her reaction would be, if you laid down a code of personal appearance and grooming, that you expected her to follow?
ReplyDeleteIt appears your instincts were correct. I was afraid it was coming to this, but I didn't say anything, because I didn't want to be perceived as a Cassandra. You and your wife seem to be poles apart on this, but I don't think you should give up just yet. Maybe you can persuade her to attend some sessions, with an independent therapist, but don't get your hopes up. It sounds like she has already made up her mind about what she wants to do. This is so sad. My heart goes out to you.
Melissa XXOO
Leslie, I understand completely what you are going through! Been there, done that, have check stubs from my alimony and child support payments as a result...
ReplyDeleteWhat would you do if you and your wife were walking down the street minding your own business and someone comes up to your wife, starts to pick a fight with her, and threatens to beat the crap out of her right in front of you? Would you put yourself between your wife and her attacker? Would you run away? Would you watch in horror as you try to dial 911?
You state in your post, "...but I am not backing down." Where I come from, "them is fightin' words!" Of course you have a right to your identity. Of course you have a right to do whatever you want with your body. Of course you have a right to feel comfortable in your skin. Do you feel so strongly about your rights that you are willing to attack and beat up your wife emotionally? Or do you feel so strongly about your wife that you are willing to put yourself between her and anything or anyone attacking her?
This isn't about who or what is right or wrong. This isn't about shaving legs. This is about your marriage, the vow you made on your wedding day, and the role of a husband and father in a marriage and in a family. This is fundamental relationship stuff that your therapist should be guiding you and your wife through... not coming up with a compromise of one week of shaved legs.
I think you need to take some time to reflect on what marriage, being a husband, being a father means to you and share this with your wife.
You have to determine if you want to be in an adversarial relationship, you against her, until someone emerges from the battle victorious over the other, or if you want to be together with your wife fighting against anyone or anything threatening her, your marriage, or your family.
I know I made the wrong decision because, like you, I was so caught up in the euphoria we all feel. I lost sight of what should have been important to me.
I cannot undo the damage I did. All I can do is to share my experience with others in similar situations.
Robyn
I can really see some of my own history in your posts, as I am sure we all can. It is so amazing sometimes, there should even be a playbook of sorts out there for couple going through this. I am sure as things develop online someone will put it all together as many have tried.
ReplyDeleteThings to consider, can you trade off one fem body grooming habit for another, lets say trim your nails for shaved legs?
Have you asked what what she doesn't like about it, is it what it stands for or is it the act itself.
I started making demands on my wifes appearance from time to time and then she didn't like that, there I discovered it is a bit of a control issue. Personal habits are hard to change, so ask her for something against her hygiene habits and then use it as a compromise.
My wife and I battle about my hair (on my head) and I like mine long and girl cut, go figure. Anyway she keeps hers short and colored, I told her if she dictates mine, then I want hers long and natural color (gray). Well she doesn't like that, she still complains although not as much. Again a compromise.
In the end it will come down to what you want and what she wants and where you can meet in the middle.
I also want to ask where you think this will all go or end up? Will you transition or not? If so then get off the pot and go, if not then concede a bit as should she.
I was ready to go, my wife saw that and then bent a bit, but at the same time so did I. Our battle were over hormones and had well moved passed leg shaving, as she could see, thing do progress, and there are worse things than shaving.
Anyway it is all very interesting how it all develops, and it says something to your relationship how much each one tolerates. Look at Callies post, and ask yourself what she means to you and what you mean to each other.
Is transition what you really want or something you think you really want. That is the million dollar question, and it will take some real exploration to answer it honestly.
B
@ Bree
ReplyDeleteWhen you ask someone to do something they don't want to do not because it bothers you, but because you know it will cause them discomfort...that's not compromise, it's just mean.
@ Renee
ReplyDeleteIt isn't mean at all, and it isn't being done to cause discomfort. It's called quid pro quo, and it's how human beings manage to overcome their differences, and get along with each other. Expecting all the sacrifice to come from one party is mean.
(Good lord, why do I let myself get drawn into these conversations...)
ReplyDelete@ Melissa
You know, I can't decide which of us is reading this wrong, or if we just really disagree that much. Or maybe it's because I've set myself up as the foil and now people have to disagree with me at every turn. I dunno.
I will say this: It is unfair for Bree's wife (or anyone's wife) to make demands on how they wear their hair (or shave, or whatever). That doesn't it make it fair or right for Bree to make similar demands. It's one of the earliest lessons we learn as children: Two wrongs don't make a right. What Bree is describing doesn't sound like sacrifice...it reads like sour grapes.
No one said sacrifice should be one-sided. But loving relationships don't exist as quid pro quo. You do things out of love and maybe you hope that eventually there will be some return on that, but if not, you don't stop loving your spouse. Love is not primarily concerned about establishing parity.
And this is why Leslie's therapist is so darned smart...the trans community as a whole is uniquely bad at dispensing relationship advice. So few actually have functional relationships upon which to base any wisdom at all.